Panther to Tiger with a bootable Lacie external

[dombort]

Hey all,

New mac user here.
Here's a scenario I'd like advice on.

I currently have Panther installed on my G4 Powerbook 1.3GZ, 760MB RAM,
I have a Lacie Bigger Extreme 400GB (FW800) hooked up, but haven't used it yet.
I've bought OSX Tiger.

It was suggested to me that I could possibly squeak some performance imporvement by using my Lacie Drive as my main bootdrive since the transfer rate is really fast to the CPU, and the read/write speeds on the Lacie drive are way faster than the native 5400 RPM drive in my powerbook.

This is interesting. So how to go about doing it?

Here's what I'm guessing:
Step 1. Install SuperDuper on my mac with OSX Panther.
Step 2. Clone my existing setup onto the Lacie Drive
Step 3. Install OSX Tiger on the powerbook.
Step 4. Make sure everything is working out ok.
Here's where I'm not sure..
Step 5. Format the Lacie Drive clean and make a bootable clone of my new OSX Tiger install onto the Lacie Drive.
Step 6. Start booting off of the Lacie Drive and see how well it works.


Questions:
1. Do you think ther ewill actually be any performance improvement?
2. Should I bother formatting the Lacie drive clean before cloning the Mac OSX Tiger to it? (otherwise, wouldn't there be 2 bootable OS on the same drive?)
3. Is there a better way to do this?

Thanks all,
Dom

[dnanian]

I'd simplify that a lot, Dom:

- Partition the LaCie before you start so that you can have a partition for a backup of the built-in drive, and create any other partitions you might want, too -- including a Safety Clone of about 8-12GB

- Clean install Tiger to the LaCie

- During the LaCie first boot, use the built-in Tiger Migration Assistant to move your files and applications from the built-in drive to the LaCie

- Check out Tiger on the LaCie

- If you're happy, you can then use SuperDuper! to copy it back to the internal. At that point, you can create a Safety Clone on the LaCie (as well as a backup), and boot from *that* -- since that'll be your boot drive, you'll get the potential benefits of the speed, but you'll still have your user files on the PowerBook -- and thus you'll remain portable!

Make sense?

[dombort]

This sounds great!
So let me get this straight:

- Partition the LaCie before you start so that you can have a partition for a backup of the built-in drive, and create any other partitions you might want, too -- including a Safety Clone of about 8-12GB

ok. makes sense..

- Clean install Tiger to the LaCie

So, when I run Tiger CD on my powermac, it will ask me where to install Tiger I guess..You're saying do a clean install to the Lacie main partition.

- During the LaCie first boot, use the built-in Tiger Migration Assistant to move your files and applications from the built-in drive to the LaCie

How do I boot to the Lacie? Is there some option key thing I do?
So, I'll be moving my user/network files from my powermac (which still has OSX Panther) to the Lacie OSX Tiger install? Right?

- Check out Tiger on the LaCie

See how it works.. ok, cool.

- If you're happy, you can then use SuperDuper! to copy it back to the internal.

So, copy the Tiger OSX that I have on the Lacie, back to my internal..
Should I erase (format) the existing stuff on my internal first..?
This is where I am a bit confused.

At that point, you can create a Safety Clone on the LaCie (as well as a backup), and boot from *that* -- since that'll be your boot drive, you'll get the potential benefits of the speed, but you'll still have your user files on the PowerBook -- and thus you'll remain portable!

Also confusing to me (sorry) .. Assuming I have OSX Tiger now on my internal running fine, should I get rid of the OSX Tiger running on the Lacie so that I can make a Safety Clone of my inetrnal OSXTiger to the Lacie...thus giving me the advantages you list above? Or should I leave the OSX Tiger on the Lacie and make a saftey clone of my internal onto the Lacie .. and somehow it will know which install to boot off of.

Thanks for any clarification. I'll also let you and your forum know if i have noticed any speed improvements across various apps.

- Dom

[dnanian]

Without quoting, but in order:

- Yes, when you install Tiger, it'll ask where you want it to install, and you'll choose the main partition on the LaCie, and do a clean install.

- Tiger will automatically boot to the drive it installed to, so there's nothing to do. But, you can switch the startup drive in System Preferences, under "Startup Disk". You can also option boot...

- Since you've migrated, after you're satisfied you can erase-and-copy to the internal (or, if you'd like, do a Smart Update; the result's the same, but Smart Update might be faster).

- Finally: you've already created the partition for the Safety Clone, so once you're happy with Tiger and clone it to the internal, you then use SuperDuper! to create the Safety Clone and boot from it. You can select the drive to boot from, again, in System Preferences...

You're in control over what you're booting from...

[dombort]

OK, done..
although I couldn't run Smart Update for some reason to do with 'ignoring permissions'...I just ended up installing a clean version of OSX Tiger on the internal drive.

I ran ONYX utility to clean stuff up. Then I ran xbench scores.

Using the internal drive with Tiger I got an overall score of: 121
Using the Lacie External Bootable with Tiger I got a score of : 140

I'm going to try using each boot-up of Tiger on different days and see if I can tell the difference.

Thanks for all your help.
Dom

[dombort]

Ok, so I'm trying to create the 'Safety Clone - share Users' from my MacHD (internal) to the Lacie external drive.. When I try this I get the following error log:

|12:20:24 PM|Info| SuperDuper!, version 74, path: /Applications/Utilities/SuperDuper!.app, OS: 10.4.2 (8C46)
|12:20:24 PM|Info| Source Drive: /, name: Macintosh HD, device: /dev/disk0s3 type: hfs, OS: 10.4.2 (8C46), capacity: 55.77 GB, used: 18.57 GB, directories: 83344, files: 377898
|12:20:24 PM|Info| Target Drive: /Volumes/Storage, name: Storage, device: /dev/disk1s7 type: hfs, OS: 10.4.2 (8C46), capacity: 292.50 GB, used: 18.20 GB, directories: 83167, files: 377013
|12:20:24 PM|Info| Copy Mode : Smart Update
|12:20:24 PM|Info| Copy Script : Safety clone - shared users.dset
|12:20:24 PM|Info| Transcript : BuildTranscript.plist
|12:20:24 PM|Info| PHASE: Volume Preparation
|12:20:24 PM|Info| ...ACTION: Enable Permissions
|12:20:24 PM|Info| ......COMMAND => Enabling permissions on Macintosh HD
|12:20:24 PM|Info| Refreshing Disk Arbitration ...
|12:20:25 PM|Info| ......COMMAND => Verifying that permissions are enabled for Macintosh HD
|12:20:25 PM|Info| Permissions on '/' are enabled.
|12:20:25 PM|Info| ......COMMAND => Enabling permissions on Storage
|12:20:25 PM|Info| Refreshing Disk Arbitration ...
|12:20:25 PM|Info| ......COMMAND => Verifying that permissions are enabled for Storage
|12:20:25 PM|Error| Could not disable Ignore Permissions







So then I found this thread with a potential solution:
http://www.shirt-pocket.com/forums/showthread.php?t=318

And I ran the terminal command, rebooted and things seemed to be working alright - in building a safety clone onto my external drive.. until its stopped with another error:

|01:39:01 PM|Info| SuperDuper!, version 74, path: /Applications/Utilities/SuperDuper!.app, OS: 10.4.2 (8C46)
|01:39:01 PM|Info| Source Drive: /, name: Macintosh HD, device: /dev/disk0s3 type: hfs, OS: 10.4.2 (8C46), capacity: 55.77 GB, used: 18.57 GB, directories: 83345, files: 377911
|01:39:01 PM|Info| Target Drive: /Volumes/BootableClone, name: BootableClone, device: /dev/disk1s5 type: hfs, OS: N/A, capacity: 14.88 GB, used: 3.49 GB, directories: 21775, files: 119922
|01:39:01 PM|Info| Copy Mode : Erase, then copy files
|01:39:01 PM|Info| Copy Script : Safety clone - shared users.dset
|01:39:01 PM|Info| Transcript : BuildTranscript.plist
|01:39:02 PM|Info| PHASE: Volume Preparation
|01:39:02 PM|Info| ...ACTION: Erase BootableClone
|01:39:02 PM|Info| ......COMMAND => Erasing BootableClone
|01:39:22 PM|Info| Could not unmount BootableClone for fast disk erase, defaulting to slower directory-by-directory erase...
|01:39:29 PM|Info| Journaling was already enabled on the volume
|01:39:29 PM|Info| ......COMMAND => Restoring BootableClone UUID (DC3866295B60A2B9)
|01:39:31 PM|Info| ...ACTION: Enable Permissions
|01:39:31 PM|Info| ......COMMAND => Enabling permissions on Macintosh HD
|01:39:31 PM|Info| Refreshing Disk Arbitration ...
|01:39:31 PM|Info| ......COMMAND => Verifying that permissions are enabled for Macintosh HD
|01:39:31 PM|Info| Permissions on '/' are enabled.
|01:39:31 PM|Info| ......COMMAND => Enabling permissions on BootableClone
|01:39:31 PM|Info| Refreshing Disk Arbitration ...
|01:39:34 PM|Info| ......COMMAND => Verifying that permissions are enabled for BootableClone
|01:39:34 PM|Info| Permissions on '/Volumes/BootableClone' are enabled.
|01:39:34 PM|Info| PHASE: Clone from Source to Target
|01:39:34 PM|Info| ...ACTION: Copy Files from Macintosh HD to BootableClone
|01:39:34 PM|Info| ......COMMAND => Cloning Macintosh HD to BootableClone
|01:39:35 PM|Info| Copying all files using script: /Applications/Utilities/SuperDuper!.app/Contents/Resources/Copy Scripts/Safety clone - shared users.dset
|01:39:35 PM|Info| Loading 19 commands from copy script /Applications/Utilities/SuperDuper!.app/Contents/Resources/Copy Scripts/Exclude system temporary files.dset
|01:39:35 PM|Info| Loading 5 commands from copy script /Applications/Utilities/SuperDuper!.app/Contents/Resources/Copy Scripts/Exclude system cache files.dset
|01:39:35 PM|Info| Loading 1 commands from copy script /Applications/Utilities/SuperDuper!.app/Contents/Resources/Copy Scripts/Exclude Norton FileSaver files.dset
|01:39:35 PM|Info| Loading 1 commands from copy script /Applications/Utilities/SuperDuper!.app/Contents/Resources/Copy Scripts/Exclude Previous Systems.dset
|01:39:35 PM|Info| Loading 3 commands from copy script /Applications/Utilities/SuperDuper!.app/Contents/Resources/Copy Scripts/Share Users.dset
|01:39:35 PM|Info| Loading 0 commands from copy script /Applications/Utilities/SuperDuper!.app/Contents/Resources/Copy Scripts/Safety clone - shared users.dset
|01:39:35 PM|Info| Copy script command hash contains 19 commands
|01:39:39 PM|Error| SVUclone: Error creating directory /Volumes/BootableClone/bin: Input/output error


Any ideas?
thanks,
Dom

[dnanian]

OK -- you've found the Permissions problem... it's hard to say what the other problem is without the system log, but if you look in there you should see what device is failing (it'll give an error with something like "disk2s0" in it). Take a look at your System Profiler report, and you'll be able to match that up with the actual device that's failing...

[dombort]

OK, took a look in the system profile (man I'm learning a bunch about the innards of macs ).

A couple things of note:

system.log:
system.log:

Description: System events log
Size: 75.14 KB
Last Modified: 24/07/05 3:03 PM
Location: /var/log/system.log
Recent Contents: ...
Jul 24 15:01:58 Dom kernel[0]: disk1s5: I/O error.
Jul 24 15:01:59 Dom kernel[0]: disk1s5: I/O error.
Jul 24 15:02:00 Dom kernel[0]: disk1s5: I/O error.
Jul 24 15:02:00 Dom kernel[0]: disk1s5: I/O error.
Jul 24 15:02:01 Dom kernel[0]: disk1s5: I/O error.
Jul 24 15:02:02 Dom kernel[0]: disk1s5: I/O error.
Jul 24 15:02:02 Dom kernel[0]: disk1s5: I/O error.
Jul 24 15:02:03 Dom kernel[0]: disk1s5: I/O error.
Jul 24 15:02:04 Dom kernel[0]: disk1s5: I/O error.
Jul 24 15:02:04 Dom kernel[0]: disk1s5: I/O error.
Jul 24 15:02:05 Dom kernel[0]: disk1s5: I/O error.
Jul 24 15:02:06 Dom kernel[0]: disk1s5: I/O error.
Jul 24 15:02:06 Dom kernel[0]: disk1s5: I/O error.
Jul 24 15:02:07 Dom kernel[0]: disk1s5: I/O error.
Jul 24 15:02:08 Dom kernel[0]: disk1s5: I/O error.
Jul 24 15:02:09 Dom kernel[0]: disk1s5: I/O error.
Jul 24 15:02:09 Dom kernel[0]: disk1s5: I/O error.
Jul 24 15:02:10 Dom kernel[0]: disk1s5: I/O error.
Jul 24 15:02:11 Dom kernel[0]: disk1s5: I/O error.
Jul 24 15:02:11 Dom kernel[0]: disk1s5: I/O error.
Jul 24 15:02:12 Dom kernel[0]: disk1s5: I/O error.
Jul 24 15:02:13 Dom kernel[0]: disk1s5: I/O error.
Jul 24 15:02:13 Dom kernel[0]: disk1s5: I/O error.
Jul 24 15:02:14 Dom kernel[0]: disk1s5: I/O error.
Jul 24 15:02:15 Dom kernel[0]: disk1s5: I/O error.
Jul 24 15:02:15 Dom kernel[0]: disk1s5: I/O error.
Jul 24 15:02:16 Dom kernel[0]: disk1s5: I/O error.
Jul 24 15:02:17 Dom kernel[0]: disk1s5: I/O error.
Jul 24 15:02:17 Dom kernel[0]: disk1s5: I/O error.
Jul 24 15:02:18 Dom kernel[0]: disk1s5: I/O error.
Jul 24 15:02:19 Dom kernel[0]: disk1s5: I/O error.
Jul 24 15:02:19 Dom kernel[0]: disk1s5: I/O error.
Jul 24 15:02:20 Dom kernel[0]: disk1s5: I/O error.
Jul 24 15:02:21 Dom kernel[0]: disk1s5: I/O error.
Jul 24 15:02:31 Dom kernel[0]: disk1s5: I/O error.
Jul 24 15:02:32 Dom kernel[0]: disk1s5: I/O error.
Jul 24 15:02:33 Dom kernel[0]: disk1s5: I/O error.
Jul 24 15:02:33 Dom kernel[0]: disk1s5: I/O error.
Jul 24 15:02:34 Dom kernel[0]: disk1s5: I/O error.
Jul 24 15:02:35 Dom kernel[0]: disk1s5: I/O error.
Jul 24 15:02:35 Dom kernel[0]: disk1s5: I/O error.
Jul 24 15:02:36 Dom kernel[0]: disk1s5: I/O error.
Jul 24 15:02:37 Dom kernel[0]: disk1s5: I/O error.
Jul 24 15:02:37 Dom kernel[0]: disk1s5: I/O error.
Jul 24 15:02:38 Dom kernel[0]: disk1s5: I/O error.
Jul 24 15:02:39 Dom kernel[0]: disk1s5: I/O error.
Jul 24 15:02:39 Dom kernel[0]: disk1s5: I/O error.
Jul 24 15:02:40 Dom kernel[0]: disk1s5: I/O error.
Jul 24 15:02:41 Dom kernel[0]: disk1s5: I/O error.
Jul 24 15:02:41 Dom kernel[0]: disk1s5: I/O error.
Jul 24 15:02:42 Dom kernel[0]: disk1s5: I/O error.
Jul 24 15:02:43 Dom kernel[0]: disk1s5: I/O error.
Jul 24 15:02:44 Dom kernel[0]: disk1s5: I/O error.
Jul 24 15:02:44 Dom kernel[0]: disk1s5: I/O error.
Jul 24 15:02:45 Dom kernel[0]: disk1s5: I/O error.
Jul 24 15:02:46 Dom kernel[0]: disk1s5: I/O error.
Jul 24 15:02:46 Dom kernel[0]: disk1s5: I/O error.
Jul 24 15:02:47 Dom kernel[0]: disk1s5: I/O error.
Jul 24 15:02:48 Dom kernel[0]: disk1s5: I/O error.
Jul 24 15:02:48 Dom kernel[0]: disk1s5: I/O error.
Jul 24 15:02:49 Dom kernel[0]: disk1s5: I/O error.
Jul 24 15:02:50 Dom kernel[0]: disk1s5: I/O error.
Jul 24 15:02:50 Dom kernel[0]: disk1s5: I/O error.
Jul 24 15:02:51 Dom kernel[0]: disk1s5: I/O error.
Jul 24 15:02:52 Dom kernel[0]: disk1s5: I/O error.
Jul 24 15:02:52 Dom kernel[0]: disk1s5: I/O error.
Jul 24 15:02:53 Dom kernel[0]: disk1s5: I/O error.
Jul 24 15:02:54 Dom kernel[0]: disk1s5: I/O error.
Jul 24 15:02:54 Dom kernel[0]: disk1s5: I/O error.
Jul 24 15:02:55 Dom kernel[0]: disk1s5: I/O error.
Jul 24 15:02:56 Dom kernel[0]: disk1s5: I/O error.
Jul 24 15:02:56 Dom kernel[0]: disk1s5: I/O error.
Jul 24 15:02:57 Dom kernel[0]: disk1s5: I/O error.
Jul 24 15:02:58 Dom kernel[0]: disk1s5: I/O error.
Jul 24 15:02:59 Dom kernel[0]: disk1s5: I/O error.
Jul 24 15:02:59 Dom kernel[0]: disk1s5: I/O error.
Jul 24 15:03:00 Dom kernel[0]: disk1s5: I/O error.
Jul 24 15:03:01 Dom kernel[0]: disk1s5: I/O error.
Jul 24 15:03:01 Dom kernel[0]: disk1s5: I/O error.
Jul 24 15:03:02 Dom kernel[0]: disk1s5: I/O error.
Jul 24 15:03:03 Dom kernel[0]: disk1s5: I/O error.
Jul 24 15:03:03 Dom kernel[0]: disk1s5: I/O error.
Jul 24 15:03:04 Dom kernel[0]: disk1s5: I/O error.
Jul 24 15:03:05 Dom kernel[0]: disk1s5: I/O error.
Jul 24 15:03:05 Dom kernel[0]: disk1s5: I/O error.
Jul 24 15:03:06 Dom kernel[0]: disk1s5: I/O error.
Jul 24 15:03:07 Dom kernel[0]: disk1s5: I/O error.
Jul 24 15:03:07 Dom kernel[0]: disk1s5: I/O error.
Jul 24 15:03:08 Dom kernel[0]: disk1s5: I/O error.
Jul 24 15:03:09 Dom kernel[0]: disk1s5: I/O error.
Jul 24 15:03:09 Dom kernel[0]: disk1s5: I/O error.
Jul 24 15:03:10 Dom kernel[0]: disk1s5: I/O error.
Jul 24 15:03:11 Dom kernel[0]: disk1s5: I/O error.
Jul 24 15:03:11 Dom kernel[0]: disk1s5: I/O error.
Jul 24 15:03:12 Dom kernel[0]: disk1s5: I/O error.
Jul 24 15:03:13 Dom kernel[0]: disk1s5: I/O error.
Jul 24 15:03:13 Dom kernel[0]: disk1s5: I/O error.
Jul 24 15:03:14 Dom kernel[0]: disk1s5: I/O error.
Jul 24 15:03:15 Dom kernel[0]: disk1s5: I/O error.
Jul 24 15:03:15 Dom kernel[0]: disk1s5: I/O error.


and in the console.log:

Description: User events log
Size: 1.28 KB
Last Modified: 24/07/05 3:02 PM
Location: /Library/Logs/Console/501/console.log
Recent Contents: Mac OS X Version 10.4.2 (Build 8C46)
2005-07-24 14:47:18 -0400
2005-07-24 14:47:21.239 SystemUIServer[89] lang is:en



**********

Disk Utility started.



Verifying volume “BootableClone”

Checking HFS Plus volume.

Checking Extents Overflow file.

Checking Catalog file.

Checking Catalog hierarchy.

Checking volume bitmap.

Checking volume information.

The volume BootableClone appears to be OK.

Mounting Disk



1 HFS volume checked

Volume passed verification





Verify and Repair disk “BootableClone”

Checking HFS Plus volume.

Checking Extents Overflow file.

Checking Catalog file.

Checking Catalog hierarchy.

Checking volume bitmap.

Checking volume information.

The volume BootableClone appears to be OK.

Mounting Disk



1 HFS volume checked

No repairs were necessary





Preparing to erase : “BootableClone”

Initialized /dev/rdisk1s5 as a 15232 MB HFS Plus volume with a 8192k journal



Mounting Disk

Erase complete.



Jul 24 14:53:50 Dom authexec: executing /Applications/Utilities/SuperDuper!.app/Contents/MacOS/SVUagent

2005-07-24 14:58:29.195 SuperDuper![351] ***ERROR OCCURRED: SVUclone: Error: Couldn't create

Jul 24 15:01:35 Dom /Applications/Microsoft Office X/Microsoft Entourage: *** Warning: Line option kATSLineIsDisplayOnly has been deprecated. ***


So, what do you think..? Next steps?
Thanks,
Dom

[dnanian]

OK, so it looks like "BootableClone" is having I/O errors.

Try erasing AND ZEROING the drive (both free space and regular surface erase). That should remap any bad sectors, and *maybe* that'll allow the backup to proceed properly... let me know!

[KevinBBG]

I've been reading this with interest. I just bought SuperDuper in anticipation of upgrading to Tiger in a few days when it arrives.

My Mac is 3 years old and having some problems due to all that time and 4 OS's going back to OS9. I was thinking of wiping the hard drive clean then installing Tiger, then putting back all my files - including all my applications - with SuperDuper. Asuming there's a way to do that without putting back the Panther system. The real problem is I just do NOT want to reinstall all my programs, what a hassle.

But in reading this thread it seems I can install Tiger on my Lacie Firewire and start out clean on a new hard drive and transefer all my programs and files with Tiger Migration Assistant. Are there any drawbacks on running from the firewire instead of my internal hard drive? Internet and printing will all work the same?

I actually have a second internal hard drive I could install Tiger on as well, would that work better?

[dnanian]

Either way should work OK, actually. The internal drive will probably be faster than the external, so that's likely what I'd suggest...

Remember, you might have to reinstall a few apps, but not many!

Good luck!

[KevinBBG]

If I do an erase and install of Tiger can I reinstall all my applications from my SuperDuper clone? I'm sure reinstalling the applications folder would not be a problem but what about all the other stuff for each program that gets stashed all over the place? Would I have to track all of that down for each program?

Kevin

[dnanian]

Yeah, you would, Kevin. But -- if you choose to do a clean install, you can use the built-in Migration Assistant to pull your user data and applications over from the clone.

That'd be far easier than trying to move the apps by "hand" -- that's a disaster waiting to happen (or, at least, a problem ).

[KevinBBG]

Originally Posted by dnanian

Yeah, you would, Kevin. But -- if you choose to do a clean install, you can use the built-in Migration Assistant to pull your user data and applications over from the clone.

That'd be far easier than trying to move the apps by "hand" -- that's a disaster waiting to happen (or, at least, a problem ).

Oh, yeah, that's an excellent idea, thanks. And if something goes wrong I can just restore the old system from the clone and start from scratch again.


Kevin

[dnanian]

Bingo! That's exactly right: your copy is exactly as it should be.

(Make sure this is a real "Backup - all files", and not a safety clone, of course!)